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	<title>Comments on: Desire = Entitlement?</title>
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	<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on theology &#38; technology.</description>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-266</guid>
		<description>Another thought provoking read. Normally, I&#039;d steer clear of such a contraversial post, but I consider you a very good friend and sincerely value your opinion so I&#039;m going to see if we can&#039;t foster a friendly debate on this subject.

I&#039;m not sure desire is the right word when describing marriage equality. At the heart of things marriage on any level is based on desire. A desire to solidify a bond of partnership with the person you love, whether gay or straight. 

Someone who is gay, did not learn this preference. It is something that the creator, hard-wired into their brains. To have a partner and want the same right as you or I to complete that partnership is a matter of equality not to be compared to a narcissistic me, me, me epidemic (which by the way runs counter to your moral compass post).

Marriage as you are defining it is in more of a religious context and as far as I can tell, the gay community isn&#039;t asking the Southern Baptists, Pope, or any religious figures to directly sanctify equal rights in marriage. They are asking the government to recognize thier right to a civil union.

Why? Because they want the same rights as a gay couple that you or I have with our partners. And why not? If two people love each other wholely shouldn&#039;t they be afforded the same rights?

I&#039;ve seen how strong a relationship you have with Carla. You can&#039;t tell me that if the shoe were on the other foot and the guiding norm and establishment was same-sex marriage, that you wouldn&#039;t still love her with all your heart, and want to solidify that bond with marriage.

To share in the bond of marriage, to have spousal rights with your partner (heck, even the ability to visit your partner in a hospital situation) those of the things important to marriage equality. Not narcisstic self-advancement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thought provoking read. Normally, I&#8217;d steer clear of such a contraversial post, but I consider you a very good friend and sincerely value your opinion so I&#8217;m going to see if we can&#8217;t foster a friendly debate on this subject.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure desire is the right word when describing marriage equality. At the heart of things marriage on any level is based on desire. A desire to solidify a bond of partnership with the person you love, whether gay or straight. </p>
<p>Someone who is gay, did not learn this preference. It is something that the creator, hard-wired into their brains. To have a partner and want the same right as you or I to complete that partnership is a matter of equality not to be compared to a narcissistic me, me, me epidemic (which by the way runs counter to your moral compass post).</p>
<p>Marriage as you are defining it is in more of a religious context and as far as I can tell, the gay community isn&#8217;t asking the Southern Baptists, Pope, or any religious figures to directly sanctify equal rights in marriage. They are asking the government to recognize thier right to a civil union.</p>
<p>Why? Because they want the same rights as a gay couple that you or I have with our partners. And why not? If two people love each other wholely shouldn&#8217;t they be afforded the same rights?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen how strong a relationship you have with Carla. You can&#8217;t tell me that if the shoe were on the other foot and the guiding norm and establishment was same-sex marriage, that you wouldn&#8217;t still love her with all your heart, and want to solidify that bond with marriage.</p>
<p>To share in the bond of marriage, to have spousal rights with your partner (heck, even the ability to visit your partner in a hospital situation) those of the things important to marriage equality. Not narcisstic self-advancement.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-149</guid>
		<description>That was a great read...I liked it so much I emailed the author!  It is great to see someone in mainstream media acknowledge such a serious issue in our society.

I also thought about this discussion the other day when reading in James 1:13-15.  James explains the pattern we get into by using terms associated with childbirth.  First someone is tempted by being lured and enticed by their own desire.  Then when desire conceives it gives birth to sin, and sin when fully grown brings forth death.  So the offspring of &quot;out of control&quot; desire is a force that does not just result in death (passive), but it &quot;brings forth&quot; death (active)...Wow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a great read&#8230;I liked it so much I emailed the author!  It is great to see someone in mainstream media acknowledge such a serious issue in our society.</p>
<p>I also thought about this discussion the other day when reading in James 1:13-15.  James explains the pattern we get into by using terms associated with childbirth.  First someone is tempted by being lured and enticed by their own desire.  Then when desire conceives it gives birth to sin, and sin when fully grown brings forth death.  So the offspring of &#8220;out of control&#8221; desire is a force that does not just result in death (passive), but it &#8220;brings forth&#8221; death (active)&#8230;Wow!</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Drescher</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Drescher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-146</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an interesting article I just read that reinforces our line of thought on this issue. Sounds like others see it that way too:  http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/18/navarrette.rudeness.narcissism/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting article I just read that reinforces our line of thought on this issue. Sounds like others see it that way too:  <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/18/navarrette.rudeness.narcissism/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/18/navarrette.rudeness.narcissism/index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-92</guid>
		<description>&quot;I wish it could be blamed on some external cause but from what I’ve observed, it’s pretty universal&quot;

This is great perspective because, as a missionary, you have seen people in many places/cultures/socio-economic backgrounds, etc.  If this is your observation then it is strong evidence.  Of course you an I know from scripture that the universal phenomenon of selfishness comes from the universal phenomenon of sin (a force that is internal and hard-wired).  I am amazed that people can observe the human race even from a much more limited perspective than yours, and somehow come up with the belief that people are basically good.  There is no such thing at the &quot;noble savage&quot;, and so much less the &quot;noble sophisticate&quot;.

I like how you describe the relationship between out of control desire (I guess this is &quot;lust&quot;) leading to selfishness, leading to entitlement.  Wow, who can save us from this hope-less path?  &quot;Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!&quot; Rom. 7:25</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wish it could be blamed on some external cause but from what I’ve observed, it’s pretty universal&#8221;</p>
<p>This is great perspective because, as a missionary, you have seen people in many places/cultures/socio-economic backgrounds, etc.  If this is your observation then it is strong evidence.  Of course you an I know from scripture that the universal phenomenon of selfishness comes from the universal phenomenon of sin (a force that is internal and hard-wired).  I am amazed that people can observe the human race even from a much more limited perspective than yours, and somehow come up with the belief that people are basically good.  There is no such thing at the &#8220;noble savage&#8221;, and so much less the &#8220;noble sophisticate&#8221;.</p>
<p>I like how you describe the relationship between out of control desire (I guess this is &#8220;lust&#8221;) leading to selfishness, leading to entitlement.  Wow, who can save us from this hope-less path?  &#8220;Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!&#8221; Rom. 7:25</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Drescher</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Drescher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Your blog has been helpful to me. I&#039;m dealing with strong desires to get a motorcycle. I don&#039;t think it got to the entitlement stage but there was a time when it could have. 

In my mind the &quot;greater illness&quot; is selfishness or a &quot;me-centric&quot; outlook to life and unfortunately we all have that to some degree. I wish it could be blamed on some external cause but from what I&#039;ve observed, it&#039;s pretty universal. We come wired that way. I suppose some might say that it&#039;s the survival instinct in us. I&#039;m not so sure though.

Would it be safe to say that desire out of control feeds off of selfishness? Could it be the greater degree of selfishness, the greater degree of desire, which in turn leads to a stronger feelings of entitlement? I wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your blog has been helpful to me. I&#8217;m dealing with strong desires to get a motorcycle. I don&#8217;t think it got to the entitlement stage but there was a time when it could have. </p>
<p>In my mind the &#8220;greater illness&#8221; is selfishness or a &#8220;me-centric&#8221; outlook to life and unfortunately we all have that to some degree. I wish it could be blamed on some external cause but from what I&#8217;ve observed, it&#8217;s pretty universal. We come wired that way. I suppose some might say that it&#8217;s the survival instinct in us. I&#8217;m not so sure though.</p>
<p>Would it be safe to say that desire out of control feeds off of selfishness? Could it be the greater degree of selfishness, the greater degree of desire, which in turn leads to a stronger feelings of entitlement? I wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Hi Dennis!  I have been following your emails and posts on FB.  I&#039;m so glad you guys found a bigger place to live...but wow what a blessing to have it be next door!!

Thanks for reading and commenting on the blog post.  Sometimes I hear things that frustrate me and writing about it is a good outlet.  I agree with you about desire being a good thing until it gets out of hand.  I have certainly had the strong feelings of entitlement well up in me as my desire for a thing grows out of control.  It is ugly to say the least.  I completely agree with you about entitlement as well.  I like the way you worded it, that it is a &quot;symptom of a greater illness&quot;.  I would love for you to unpack that statement a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dennis!  I have been following your emails and posts on FB.  I&#8217;m so glad you guys found a bigger place to live&#8230;but wow what a blessing to have it be next door!!</p>
<p>Thanks for reading and commenting on the blog post.  Sometimes I hear things that frustrate me and writing about it is a good outlet.  I agree with you about desire being a good thing until it gets out of hand.  I have certainly had the strong feelings of entitlement well up in me as my desire for a thing grows out of control.  It is ugly to say the least.  I completely agree with you about entitlement as well.  I like the way you worded it, that it is a &#8220;symptom of a greater illness&#8221;.  I would love for you to unpack that statement a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Drescher</title>
		<link>http://ross-family.org/blog/2009/09/04/115/comment-page-1/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Drescher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ross-family.org/blog/?p=115#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Hey Steve, Thanks for that. I never knew you were such a philosopher. What you wrote makes perfect sense. Desire, when properly bridled and nurtured is a good thing. But desire, when taken to extreme leads to all kinds of badness, entitlement being one symptom of a greater illness. 

Entitlement, on the other hand is just bad, there is nothing good about it that I can think of. How can the creature  feel it (he/she) is entitled to anything? We are entitled to nothing, IMO. But this day and age we live in a society that feels they are entitled to anything they set their minds to. Kind of reminds me of the Tower of Babel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Steve, Thanks for that. I never knew you were such a philosopher. What you wrote makes perfect sense. Desire, when properly bridled and nurtured is a good thing. But desire, when taken to extreme leads to all kinds of badness, entitlement being one symptom of a greater illness. </p>
<p>Entitlement, on the other hand is just bad, there is nothing good about it that I can think of. How can the creature  feel it (he/she) is entitled to anything? We are entitled to nothing, IMO. But this day and age we live in a society that feels they are entitled to anything they set their minds to. Kind of reminds me of the Tower of Babel.</p>
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